I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but just speaking from the FEW homeschooled kids I've known (aprox 6 or so), that has been my experience. I know lots of teachers, and they do occassionally have homeschoolers join them for particular classess- they have told me they typically don't fit in with the other kids very well. This, of course, does come from a biased source.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but just speaking from the FEW homeschooled kids I've known (aprox 6 or so), that has been my experience. I know lots of teachers, and they do occassionally have homeschoolers join them for particular classess- they have told me they typically don't fit in with the other kids very well. This, of course, does come from a biased source.

How could they fit in? Those kids that go to school together all the time have all formed cliques and if a homeschooler joins in for a particular class they're not going to be part of any of them. Additionally, they are automatically going to be considered "different", which doesn't become cool until high school. The stereotype that homeschoolers are weird, which is constantly perpetuated by the media, isn't going to help them fit in either.

Regarding the "social morons" you have met, you have to keep in mind that homeschoolers are self selecting. Some people homeschool their children for the purpose of sheltering them, so their children really don't get to socialize (unlike most homeschoolers). A LOT of homeschoolers choose that option so as to make religion a big part of their children's life, which is going to make them seem like a weirdo, especially to someone in an atheist group. You can't say homeschooling makes kids weird without a random sample. FWIW, I have met many well-adjusted and socially normal people who were homeschooled through high school. Some of them were even religious. I have also met socially odd people who went to public school K-12.

Further, I think everyone should consider that the quirkiness that may have come from a child's homeschooled life isn't necessarily bad. Is quirky worse than callous, slutty, bitter, undereducated, self-loathing, apathetic...but really cool? Those are the traits that IMO make up the stereotypical public schooled child. My opinion is skewed because I mainly remember the traits of people with whom I would associate.

ETA: Sorry, I meant random assignment, not a random sample. It popped into my head that I had typed the wrong thing while I was on the way to the convention.

I get it...but then, why are all the homeschool kids I've met such social morons?

Genetics? I dunno, are the parents socially inept as well? [and the thread takes a nose dive into the Nature vs. Nurture debate :D]

Spawn can be a bit akward, but he's got a touch of Aspergers. It's not generally noticable until you get to know him a bit better, and you start to realize that he just doesn't get certain things. His younger brother, Asmodeus, is bipolar and now they think OCD as well (which, Joy, is why I don't bring him to things...he's VERY disruptive in social settings). The HS group that they were part of in NY was filled with kids of all levels of social interaction ability. Asmodeus was on the lowest end, but we had a few in that group that could easily become politicians with the gift for socializing that they had.

I'm not sure if that's true- you get certifications in particular subjects, and you can only teach those subjects. I know because my brother had to get his psychology certification so that he could teach at the school he currently works at. Although maybe that's just a common practice in Iowa schools, and not the law.

I cannot speak to Iowa law, but in Illinois, New York and Massachusetts (my mother and step father were teachers in IL, and we homeschooled in NY & MA) it was not a requirement for a teacher to have an advanced degree (BS or BA) in a particular topic to teach it. A single degree was required for the teaching job itself, but most were BA Ed. Some of the special ed (gifted, behavior devlopment or learning diisabled) teachers had special degrees, like my mom did, but that's the exception. It could very well be that that's not true here, but I don't know for sure, and I highly doubt it. Especially in the sciences, where they could go and get a better paying job rather than the pittance they pay teachers.

It could also just be his district codes that required that.

How could they fit in? Those kids that go to school together all the time have all formed cliques and if a homeschooler joins in for a particular class they're not going to be part of any of them. Additionally, they are automatically going to be considered "different", which doesn't become cool until high school. The stereotype that homeschoolers are weird, which is constantly perpetuated by the media, isn't going to help them fit in either.

Regarding the "social morons" you have met, you have to keep in mind that homeschoolers are self selecting. Some people homeschool their children for the purpose of sheltering them, so their children really don't get to socialize (unlike most homeschoolers). A LOT of homeschoolers choose that option so as to make religion a big part of their children's life, which is going to make them seem like a weirdo, especially to someone in an atheist group. You can't say homeschooling makes kids weird without a random sample. FWIW, I have met many well-adjusted and socially normal people who were homeschooled through high school. Some of them were even religious. I have also met socially odd people who went to public school K-12.

Further, I think everyone should consider that the quirkiness that may have come from a child's homeschooled life isn't necessarily bad. Is quirky worse than callous, slutty, bitter, undereducated, self-loathing, apathetic...but really cool? Those are the traits that IMO make up the stereotypical public schooled child. My opinion is skewed because I mainly remember the traits of people with whom I would associate.

I'm KMortis, and I approve this message. :D

Given our grossly unnatural system of public schooling, with its groups of uniform age, isolation from the bulk of outside affairs and only a single adult role model per typical classroom, why do we view its products as being even remotely "normal"?

Children who mix well with both younger cohorts and adults sound a lot less like "social morons" than the "Lord of the Flies" types who tend to end up on top of the social heap today.

unfortunately, i think most homeschoolers mix only with people their parents know and approve of- which is far from natural.

Sounds not unlike old-time village life. And it doesn't sound too bad, as long as the parents aren't Catholic.

I disagree. It's important for kids to see people who are not like themselves- economically, religiously, racially, and philosophically. There has to be a time in your life when you realize that what you have always thought was normal and the only way of being is not, in fact, the only way of being- and that generally happens when you see examples of it in school settings.

I disagree. It's important for kids to see people who are not like themselves- economically, religiously, racially, and philosophically. There has to be a time in your life when you realize that what you have always thought was normal and the only way of being is not, in fact, the only way of being- and that generally happens when you see examples of it in school settings.

That generally happens in public school settings for children who spend most of their time in public school because that's where most children spend most of their time, not because public school is the only place to encounter diversity. Sheltering your children to the extent that they don't spend adequate time with people who are different from themselves sounds like a bad idea, but sheltering your children is not a requirement of homeschooling. Making your children spend 6 hours/day 5 days/week in a room with children who are all the same age as them sounds like a bad idea too. People need to learn to socialize not only with their peers, but with people of all ages (and really socialize, not just sit in a desk beside them).

All the homeschoolers I have met and talked to would agree with you that children need to socialize plenty and with a diverse group of people. We would extend that to mean they should also learn to socialize with people of different ages. There are people, believe it or not, all over the world all the time, and you can talk to them, even if you didn't go to school that day. Opportunities for socialization are ample:

playing with neighbor children when they get home from school and on weekends,
boy scouts/girl scouts/campfire,
4h,
ymca sports,
cedar rapids rec center classes of all sorts,
volunteering somewhere,
get a job,
talking to adult neighbors during school hours,
Cedar Valley Rocks and Minerals Society field trips and classes (all ages),
gatherings and field trips with other homeschoolers (who, though heavily christian, are diverse),
camp,
going to mom and dad's friends' house, or they come over, and maybe they have children to boot,
indian creek nature center classes,
Home School Assistance Program classes,
Theatre Cedar Rapids acting classes,
a-team meet ups (or whatever their parents are into),
family get togethers (just because they're related, doesn't mean they're the same religion, race, of the same economic status, or hold to similar philosophies),
play groups....

There is a terrible wide-spread stereotype of the homeschooled child as someone who doesn't leave the house and talk to people other than his immediate family because his parents are trying to keep him innocent, naive, and unable to consider religious alternatives to fundamentalist Christianity. You can't take what you saw on Jesus Camp and make a generalization about the homeschool community.

Diversity is everywhere, not just locked up in the public schools, and even though someone would really have to try *not* to meet people who are different from themselves, homeschoolers I know and talk to tend to go ahead and make an effort to get their kids involved in all sorts of things with all sorts of people.